Center for the literary arts in New York State
Kai Bird and Susan Goldmark discuss American Scoundrel
Pulitzer Prize-winning biographer Kai Bird and his wife and co-author, Susan Goldmark, discussed their new book, American Scoundrel: Roy Cohn's Dark Journey from Joe McCarthy to Donald Trump, before an audience of more than 200 people on Monday, Sept. 14, at our first Page Hall event of the season. Moderator Casey Seiler, editor of the Times Union, led the conversation.
Writers Institute Director Paul Grondahl opened the evening by announcing that American Scoundrel, which was published September 1, was already #2 on the New York Times Hardcover Nonfiction Best Seller list.
The conversation ranged from stories about Roy Cohn's early years to his enduring influence on American politics.
Kai Bird, Susan Goldmark, and Casey Seiler at Page Hall on Monday, Sept. 14. (Credit: Janet Topal / NYSWI)
Before taking questions from the audience, Bird described how Roy Cohn played a large role in transforming Donald Trump from a "parochial New York City developer" into a national figure.
(Excerpted transcript edited for clarity. We will post a video of the conversation in a few weeks.)
"I had four telephone interviews with President Donald Trump last year," Bird said. "In the first one -- these were old-fashioned cold calls to his personal cell phone -- he answered, 'Hello.'"
"How did you get his cell phone number?" Seiler asked.
"Someone," Goldmark said.
Laughing, Seiler said, "Someone? A guy who knows a guy who knows a guy."
Bird continued: "He doesn't want me to say. I quickly introduced myself and said, 'I'm writing a biography of Roy Cohn,' and he interrupted and said, 'Oh, terrific! Roy was such a wonderful guy. He was a great lawyer. We did a lot of winning together.'"
"And this is kind of astonishing. The president of the United States today still admires Roy Cohn. He regards him wistfully as one of his closest friends and remembers that Roy was his mentor, that he opened all sorts of doors, not just by introducing him to New York society, but by telling him how to deal with the press, the courts and the law, helping him build Trump Tower, obtain variances and secure favorable tax arrangements."
"In one of these telephone interviews, Donald Trump said, 'You know, Roy told me multiple times that I could someday be president.'"
AMERICAN SCOUNDREL
Kai Bird and
Susan Goldmark
7:30 p.m. Monday, September 14, 2026
Page Hall, UAlbany Downtown Campus
135 Western Avenue, Albany NY 12203
See map.
Photo credit: Mission Studios Ltd.
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Kai Bird, Pulitzer Prize-winning biographer, is the coauthor (with his wife, Susan Goldmark) of American Scoundrel: Roy Cohn's Dark Journey from Joe McCarthy to Donald Trump (2026). In praise, Jon Meacham called it “powerful and illuminating”; Stacey Schiff called it, “a propulsive mind-boggling read”; and Ken Auletta called it, “an extraordinary up-close view of Cohn’s internal wiring.”
With Martin Sherwin, Bird shared the Pulitzer for American Prometheus: The Triumph and Tragedy of J. Robert Oppenheimer (2005), a #1 New York Times bestseller that inspired the Oscar-winning blockbuster, "Oppenheimer" (2023).
Susan Goldmark, coauthor of American Scoundrel, has spent her career advancing economic and social development in more than 75 countries through consulting, nonprofit leadership, and the World Bank.
She has managed multibillion-dollar social, infrastructure, and environmental portfolios, launched carbon trading and poverty reduction initiatives, and served as the World Bank’s Country Director in Nepal and later in multiple Latin American nations. Married to Kai Bird for more than 50 years, Goldmark also led the research for American Scoundrel.
Cosponsored by the University at Albany's Rockefeller College of Public Affairs & Policy, College of Arts & Sciences, and UAlbany’s Department of History.
reviews:
“A propulsive, mind boggling read… Kai Bird pins this alternate moral universe to the page brilliantly and even-handedly.”
—Stacy Schiff, Pulitzer Prize winner and author of Cleopatra: A Life and The Revolutionary: Samuel Adams
“Powerful and illuminating… Roy Cohn is emblematic of dark and perennial forces in our national life… Bird has delivered a vital volume.”
—Jon Meacham, #1 New York Times bestselling author of The Soul of America: The Battle for Our Better Angels
“The definitive book on Roy Cohn… Cohn’s influence on our time is incalculable and we are living in the long shadow of his legacy… American Scoundrel is essential reading for anyone who wishes to understand Donald Trump’s America.”
—Jeremy Strong, Emmy, Golden Globe, and Tony-winning actor, and Academy Award nominee for his portrayal of Roy Cohn in "The Apprentice"
“An extraordinary, up-close view of Cohn’s internal wiring… A brilliantly reported and vividly written biography that will mesmerize readers from its opening pages.”
—Ken Auletta, longtime contributor to The New Yorker and bestselling author of Googled: The End of the World as We Know It
“A must-read for these dark days. To understand the president who has hurled this country into chaos, we must tap the root—get to the source. American Scoundrel does just that by detailing the life of Roy Cohn. It is, in the end, a thorough and poignant account of a moral monster.”
—Eddie S. Glaude, Jr., author of America, U.S.A.: How Race Shadows the Nation’s Anniversaries